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Game Balance


Post your awesome ideas, make me believe they are good and if possible, I will add them to the mod.

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Post Sat Jun 04, 2016 10:09 am

Game Balance

The thing is, there's never been a proper discussion about balance in the mod. Sure, some people left balance related messages here and there, I also went and took balance ideas from other mods, the Fan Patch, the ESOC patch, that huge balancing thread on the Heaven forum (http://aoe3.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/forums/display.cgi?action=st&fn=1&tn=32767&f=1,,,10&st=550), because let's be honest, you would be mad to ignore them. But some of those ideas didn't fit with my mod, for example I still ended up balancing the Dutch how I thought fit for the mod.

But is my way really better? This is what we need to discuss. I have a friend who helps me out with balancing but he has many ideas and, the truth is that an entire game cannot be balanced by just one man, as different people have different opinions about what is fair and balanced and what is not.

So, in the hope that people will be interested in helping out, I made this thread.

Here are some of my friend's ideas about what needs changing and I want you guys to give your opinion as well:


“Dutch east india company card “ : Change it for give -20 % food and wood cost of banks instead of -15 % and it will be ok


Russian “Boyard” : this card should be nerfed, the bonus should be at 10 % instead of 15 %. It is a very strong card that provide HP and attack in age 2


German “long range infantry hitpoints” : You should increase the amout of HP this card give (only +15 % HP for an age 4 card is poor), so I though of +20 % HP.

German “Lippizaner cavalry” : This should be increased too, it only provide +15 % HP and attack for 1 unit. It should be raised to +20 %.


Japanese “sword saint” : The values of the increase cost should be reduced (so instead of +10% food and coin cost it should be at +7 %)

Japanese “Hand infantry attack” : on the other hand this card should be nerfed, instead of +20 % attack for samurai and sohei it should only give +15 %

Japanese “way of the bow” : The HP bonus should be reduced from +15 % to +10 % (Its a little too powerfull in his current state, thats why I propose this nerf)

Japanese “close combat” : Same as above, the HP bonus should be reduced to +10 %

Japanese “Yabusame attack” : That card need to be buffed, so instead of +20 % it should give +25 % more attack (I ask for +5 % more)

Japanese “In-yo rush” : This card should be nerfed a little, it should only give +15 % more attack instead of +20 %

Japanese “Flaming arrow hitpoints” : It should give +25 % hitpoint (instead of 20 %)
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Post Sun Jun 05, 2016 11:36 pm

Re: Game Balance

I think the Dutch Fencibles should be removed. It makes the Dutch too stong IMO.
The Card Germantown Farmers should be moved from Age III to Age II because in Age III you normally so many settlers that the settlerwagons become obsolete.
Last edited by H3LLGHA5T on Tue Jun 07, 2016 11:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Mon Jun 06, 2016 5:58 pm

Re: Game Balance

Fencibles? Yes well, they were too strong but I nerfed them several times. The thing is, I had someone complain all the time how Dutch suck because of their low villager population and dependence of bank cards so I tried to buff them, thus the Fencible. They also had too few unique units so, again, Fencible.
If they need more nerfing please say so and explain what and why for every suggestion.

As for Settlers Wagons, I mean, they are still the best villagers in the game so I think you should leave some room for them. But I will consider it.

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Post Sun Jul 03, 2016 8:55 am

Congratulations for the mod , positive criticism, questions

the way it is for me looks good ,good mod has greatly improved the game, as units are excelent including flatbowman ( creative thought ) and Dutch Fencibles (for the Dutch infantry are too weak
compared with that of other people ) .
and arabic Maghrabi can be hired ?
I can not find them to train ( quite liked them!)
is a tip of a civilization , Saracens or Arabs ( of the same )
the next civilization will be Swedish ?
very good mod congratulations !
Sorry my bad english, i'm brasilian,rssrsrs

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Post Wed Mar 08, 2017 6:43 pm

Re: Game Balance

Hey Mandos, my friends and I where place 1-3 for some time back in the day in multiplayer in 40 minutes treaty games. We always had a blast playing the game, to this day it's my favorite RTS. So thank you for keeping the game fresh so I can come back from time to time and enjoy it again, I appreciate it. My suggestions will not be to improve the game as it is, but to try to create a fresh feeling in the game which should be very possible from my perspective and knowledge of the technical limitations the game has. If I'm wrong please correct me. I will focus on the military balance of the game mainly.

List of suggested changes (unfortunatly in no particular order):

- remove or heavily reduce all siege damage from any non siege unit like skirmishers, musketeers aso.

Canons (including mortars):

- raise all prices x5
- make cannons far more effective against ranged infantry
- make cannons medium effective against armored melee infantry
- raise production times
- reduce effectiveness against cavalry

melee infantry:

-make melee infantry very effective against cavalry
-reduce efficiency against ranged infantry
-balance efficiency against other melee infantry units

melee cavalry
- raise attack against ranged infantry
- lower attack against melee infantry

ranged cavalry
- raise health
- raise armor
- slightly increase unit costs

- reduce costs of early age units like crossbows and pikemen in later ages
- reduce production time

other improvements:
- raise wall hp
- create option to repair all walls when marked (please this is the one feature I really wanted in the original game for eternity, this retarded option to only repair one wall at a time is ridicilous)
- option to keep original unit speed when grouped (also a feature that should have been in the game FOR FUCKS SAKE, I hope this is possible)

Finally some questions regarding newer/older civs

- sweden has the option and cards to rebuild forts with strelets but sweden does not have strelets? is the patchversion wrong or is this an mistake? did I overlook something?
- I noticed you can only choose 25 cards for nations like portugal, was this in the game all along or is it by mistake and should be 29 cards as well?
- germany appears somehwat weak in the changes, no musketeers and weaker cavalry. if everyone would agree some musks for the germans would be nice, after all the hessen, preußen und bayern had pretty disciplined soldiers (called Kadavergehorsam at some point). I'm somewhat biased though in this regard being german myself. I never liked the War Wagons (Kampfwagen) for some reason. reducing some values from units like doppelsoldiers or adjust prices would seem to be appropiate balance options in return.


Suggested AI-Tweaks (if possible)

- better balance by producing more infantry units and less cannons
- attack with higher frequency

These are my general thoughts that do not consider special units from any civilisation/country. I want to emphazise again that my suggestions are not critique in any way just my opinion how the countersystem from AOE could work even better. Your mod is great as it is and greatly appreciated, thank you again.

best wishes
Chris
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Post Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:47 pm

Re: Game Balance

Your suggestions are actually very reasonable overall.

More HP on buildings and less siege damage on units which are not specialized in siege, I agree, the overall unit tweaks, I agree.
Though, this doesn't mean everything will be implemented. But making buildings stronger so that you actually need heavy artillery and have a good reason to go beyond Age3 is something I really want to do. As it stands, on ESO and pro plays, most if not all matches end in like 20 minutes in Age3. All that awesome Age4 and 5 stuff goes unused.

And the main reason behind this is weak buildings and strong siege attacks. It's still a hard problem to fix but I'll do it.

Swedish are just not finished yet, they have the Russian homecity. And all civs can get 30 cards, you just need a higher homecity level (more slots are unlocked with HC level, this is how it's always been). This might be bugged though so let me know if it is.

Repairing all walls at once, only if I could man...

Thanks for your suggestions.

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Post Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:29 pm

Re: Game Balance

I can't promise anything, but I might find the time to crunch the numbers and make a proper proposal. I know throwing this ideas around is easy if someone else does the actual work so I usually try to avoid this. As I said though no promises :P
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Post Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:38 pm

Re: Game Balance

I... don't want to be an *** but there's no need to spend time on coming up with new numbers for everything since it's not likely I will add them all and then I'll look even more like an ***. I got the overall idea and number crunching will come later.

What I would like help with is the whole homecity cards thing. Technically, you should get a new card slot every 5 or 10 levels. And from what I remember I took the last level you get cards at and extended it for another 5 cards. But as I said, it might be bugged, and I don't really have a lot of time to look into it, lots of work both real life and on the mod to do.

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Post Thu Mar 09, 2017 3:31 pm

Re: Game Balance

Ah I found the error regarding the card options. What I'm doing normally is to modify the xml files to get access to the cards instantly for treaty games. In this case I accidently set the homecity level to 999 instead of 99. apparantly aoe can't deal with such higfh numbers so the card limit wasn't raised. So the mistake was, as most times, in front of the monitor.

[edit]

I played a ton of games now and I don't know what it is, the actual unit values or changes in automated attack patterns you mention but civilisations with weaker economys had noticable stronger units to compensate and those differences seem to deminish too much now. Even the Japs with Generals backing them up have difficulties now to fight a moderatly larger army, which shouldn't be the case considering the weaker gathering rates. Hard to tell though.
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Post Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:26 pm

Re: Game Balance

Hm. Or maybe, since Japanese were already one of the best civs, and since I tried to buff the weaker civs as well, now they put up more of a fight? :D
I can dream... sorry.

I can't remember everything I did but Japanese should not be too nerfed or anything. Daimyos were touched a bit but only in terms of speed and HP, the bonuses they offer were not touched. If I remember right.

Anyway, try Dutch if you want. Many people complained about their many weaknesses and I think I did some great progress with them and now they might actually be too op.

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